Having spent a lovely day at a crowded beach, I just want to re-up my little short reading of A Return to Modesty by Wendy Shalit (all the posts are linked in this last one).
I have the feeling that many mothers are theoretically all in favor of modesty, or perhaps are somewhat conflicted; many fathers don't really give it a thought (and that is odd to me).
But in reality they just let their kids do what other kids are doing. In conversation they deplore the current state of provocative fashion, but they find themselves incapable of doing anything about it. But I'm here to urge you to change that.
Unfortunately, the envelope has been pushed so far that there is really nowhere to go — and nothing, and I mean nothing, is hidden — and this is by no means a new situation! Decades of string bikinis seem to have settled the matter. I mean, I'm in my 60s and they seem ancient to me. But human nature doesn't change, and what is immodest will continue to be immodest, even if grandmas have forgotten to blush.
In matters of fashion, we all have a tendency to pose and check our looks out, in that one pose. But when you are moving around, you bend, you twist, you slump, you, in short, do not maintain that pose.
When the article of clothing is extremely, terminally skimpy, you, or more importantly your lovely, innocent, sweet daughter, is, simply put, exposed.
It's of no use to say that people (men, boys) ought to avert their eyes. That girl, your daughter, is bending over to get a drink out of the cooler and there is a beach full of males over whom you have no control, right behind her, getting a show. A show of your daughter's precious body.
As I said in the title, this is an emergency. It simply doesn't matter what other people are doing — doesn't matter that all the girls in her class are wearing tiny bathing suits (and, not coincidentally, spending time and money on whatever is necessary to mitigate what is being seen underneath and around; hardly a fitting expenditure in any dimension, whether monetary or otherwise — and it's very strange to think that a girl of 14 or 15 is becoming absorbed in such matters). Maybe think about whether her class and her friends are the best for her, if modesty, if being different, is out of the question. And know that in many communities, many lovely young women are discovering the joys of dressing in an attractive, yet modest way!
The truth is that covering up reasonably is amazingly freeing. Wendy Shalit's book makes that point admirably. You don't have to choose between posing and exposing. You don't have to worry about bikini lines or spend money and time on attending to them — or, well, any of it. You can move without consciousness of self other than that you have confidence.
Don't we want our daughters to have this gift?
It will take a little… endurance of the ensuing response — which I call attitude. The aftermath won't be fun. Men are much better at this sort of endurance than women, so my suggestion is to announce the change and then let him enforce. One will also have to change one's own beach wear… which will not be a bad thing at all, if my observations serve me well.
Also, teach your daughters to have awareness of their surroundings and.. what is the word… plié? dip at the knees — rather than bend over when reaching down in a short skirt, much less a bikini.
Read the book. Women and girls gain nothing but a sort of slavery by being immodest. We gain freedom by being modest. The day, a couple of decades ago, that I discovered that swimsuit can have a little skirt on it was a glorious day of liberty! (Same for all athletic wear!)
Have your teenage daughter bend over wearing her current swimsuit in front of your husband, if you are having doubts — make him observe. [Edited to say that she does not have to aware of his observation — but I stand by my insistence that he must observe her. He is the only man on earth who has only her goodness at heart, unlike all the men at the beach who have already observed her…] I think then you will have all the support you need. I hope so. This really is a hill to die on.
Relatedly, teach your young boys and encourage your husband to teach them, gently and delicately, to have the habit of what used to be called “guarding the eyes” — simply looking away when presented with immodesty. They can also practice looking at a girl's face and into her eyes rather than at her body. We can acknowledge that women today are sadly mistaken and girls are not protected (“I feel sorry for them — no one has taught them how free they could be”), and that a boy can do his part by simply looking elsewhere.
I welcome any resources you might wish to leave in the comments for shopping opportunities! Let's share the information and help each other!
bits & pieces
- And non-Christians too, many of whom signed what is now called The Agatha Christie Indult. More: The Mystery of the Agatha Christie Indult
- An excellent article: Abortion and the Reformation of Male Strength. It's Pope Pius XI who explored, in his encyclical Casti Connubii, the perennial teaching of the Catholic Church that a woman is queen of her home and lowers herself by competing with men. I wrote about this nearly forgotten but central truth in my book, God Has No Grandchildren. (affiliate link — and if you have read this book, would you be so kind as to leave a review for me there on Amazon, so that others can find it? Thank you!)
from the archives
- Practically the whole of the task of raising children can be summed up by saying we are trying to give them self control and situational awareness. If you want teenagers who respect your judgement, you need to be willing to make your eight-year-old wait a few minutes for lunch and obey you when you tell him to stop drumming on the table. (Nevertheless, even mindless teenagers are desperately seeking guidance. They will resist, they will wail. Remain firm and give them what they need while you still can.)
Remember, the archives of this blog are edited, collected, and expanded in the three volumes (with ribbon bookmarks! and index! and illustrations by Deirdre!) of The Summa Domestica: Order and Wonder in Family Life! The paperback versions should be coming out soon; meanwhile you can order from Amazon (affiliate link) or from this little shop: Montessori Munchkin!
A few readers have kindly told me that they are using volume 2, Education, as a homeschool retreat in preparation for the coming school year. That could be a wonderful undertaking for a few friends or the homeschooling group, for August, to get a renewed purpose and a vision. If you are feeling a bit panicky, I believe you will find some calm in the chapters. In that volume, I provide an overview for goals and a roadmap for each subject, as well as offering criteria for choosing books and curriculum. See what you think! And if you have read the books, please do leave a review on Amazon so others can find it! Thank you!
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Jaci Mae says
One trend I’ve noticed in Minnesota is to have all children and adults wear rash guard shirts with long sleeves. They are 50+ spf (so so much less sunscreen, the best.), have cute patterns on them (mine is white with thin blue stripes, very nautical), and are actually nursing friendly when wearing a tank top under. I wear mine with flowy running shorts, and i daresay i look very cute in it. I get a lot of compliments on it too. I’m hoping that the trend catches – last time I went to the beach on Lake Michigan, the trend was thong bikini (???? Ugh) and boy did i see a LOT of RED cheeks that day. Those women are going to be soreeeee. Ouch.
Dixie says
I second the rash guard-modest bottoms combo! I wear the short-sleeved-style rash guard over a sports bra and then I wear a Lands End swim skort as bottoms. I started this when I was nursing my first baby and it’s so convenient and easy.
I do find that the swim skirts/shorts/dresses/shirts get in the way when you are swimming for exercise or as a sport, i.e. swimming laps or diving. They billow voluminously and drag you a bit in the water, which is a problem when you’re exercising or training. My opinion is that a regular, basic one-piece that does not show cleavage is appropriate for swimming as a sport. The context makes it so.
But for swimming as just fun, or in public — I feel so much better in the little skirt!
Maurisa says
Wonderfully presented.
I cringed a bit when you suggested having our daughters bend over in front of their fathers but I can see how that might even act as a deterrent in choosing articles of clothing that might expose too much.
I’m so grateful my daughters rarely pushed against standards of modesty in our home. Only a few times did I ever have to insist they change or add an article underneath or over something which showed too much. I think it was because I was willing to say something and hold the line and that dad would back me up.
Leila says
Yes, it’s cringey!! But ask your husband — would he rather that HE took a look or that someone ELSE’S dad took a look? Because at the beach, that is who is sitting on the chair behind your blanket.
Maria says
Ditto, made me cringe as well, but with the same following thoughts. Only difference being one is purposeful and she would be very aware that she is being looked up, and by her dad no less, and one is totally unaware, at least I would think so. Maybe it can be done somehow so as she doesn’t realize exactly? I am just thinking I wouldn’t have wanted to be subjected to such a test no matter what kind of suit I was wearing! You know?
Maria says
Looked at*!
Leila says
Dads need to keep an eye on their children! This is normal, actually. He only wants to protect her and like a doctor (only more so), he can do it.
The trouble today is that fathers think that it’s somehow impolite to say anything to their kids, especially daughters.
Maria says
Here, I definitely agree. I just was thinking of how I would feel at any age above 13 being asked to bend over in front of any boy/man, even my dad, so they might size up whether my swimsuit was too revealing. I do think that dads should keep an eye out though and perhaps moms can prompt them in this to assist, you are certainly right!
Maria
Alea says
I think even the suggestion of the dad checking would give both daughter and dad something to think about and it may not even need to take place in actuality. If everyone’s feeling uncomfortable at the thought, then there’s obviously a problem.
Maria says
Could be, could be otherwise. I am not sure how you would feel, again, even if entirely covered, but being in a somewhat compromised position with the knowledge it is to be assessed for appropriateness. I could explain more, but will leave it by mentioning that in this over-sexed society such a test could be strange for all involved even if all have the best intentions AND the attire is appropriate, let alone otherwise. But this is somewhat off-topic, I don’t mean to steer the conversation away from something good and solid and in need of discussion and attention.
Leila says
Basically, I think the dad should get a heads up from mom to have an eye out for his girls’ modesty from his male perspective for this very reason: that they, the girls, not be scrutinized by others, but be given the gift of freedom from that fate.
The conversation ought to be between husband and wife. There are many other areas in raising children where this conversation must happen. It’s for the good of the children and they don’t need to be in on the conversation, necessarily, but they do need to feel its effects. The parents know how to be delicate or even lay down the law as the situation demands. In so many areas of their path to maturity and virtue, parents need to do this sort of thing, and being squeamish about it is a misplaced response. The 15 yo girl in the little bikini is already exposed.
What I think is so necessary is that if the mother realizes that things are not as they ought to be, she needs the father to have prior knowledge of what she is talking about so he can back her up. She needs him to be aware. All good intentions will be undermined if her “we’re getting you one of these nicer suits, which one do you like?” is met with a shrug from dad and no support when the girl complains.
My hunch is that in situations where things have gotten out of control, the father has stopped paying attention because he has been given the feeling that his observations and impulses to lead are not welcome. He is the beta. Besides, everyone is just so used to things as they are.
If he never really looks, he will not know. And if he doesn’t know, then everyone else is looking…
Bonnie says
I’m so glad I started dressing my girls with modesty in mind when they were young. My oldest is 12 and there is no arguments on wearing skirts and dresses and modest swimwear. Calypsa and Coolibar both have modest swimwear for women and children. For dresses and skirts I have started a modest clothing boutique. Its http://www.stellamarisclothing.com. I guess it’s become sort of a mission:)
Maria says
Our oldest seems to be in a bit of a strange situation here and there.. He is apparently pretty aware of this temptation and naturally has been very vocal about what he finds immodest (maybe we taught him this accidentally? I don’t recall explicitly teaching and custody of the eyes type thing but we have explained that a lot of the time girls especially will dress to attract attention because that’s sadly how they derive a sense of self-worth because we live in a messedup society, so perhaps this was enough? Oh and Fr Josh Waltz has a talk on modesty and our son listens to and loves him, so maybe it wasnt us at all). Anyway, it has gotten him in hot water with girl friends his age (friends, who are girls, I mean)! They, I think, feel maybe somewhat judged? These are similarly-minded families, so devoutly Catholic and so the feminism rage isn’t a thing here (you know, the “don’t blame woman and try to make me cover up because your mind is in the gutter!” types) but he is nonetheless met with push back. I have no ideas for him, other than keep it up but perhaps be a bit more tactful in his suggestions to dress differently? I have never been there when he has brought it up with them to know exactly how he addresses it and he tends to be overconfident in his bearing, hah.
Dixie says
I think that a boy-girl friendship is not a good context in which for one person to comment on the modesty or immodesty of the other’s dress. There are too many factors at play.
People need to either A) have authority over the other person or B) be an very close friend in order to address this directly with someone of the opposite sex.
I would recommend you talk with him about the custody of the eyes thing (I’m sure you have) and that he may kindly distance himself in the friendship if the immodesty is too much of a concern for him. Or you can speak to the mom for him if it’s a big issue.
It might be important also for him to realize that modesty is subjective to a degree and that these girls may very well be trying to be modest.
It’s like immodesty at church — is it a parishioner’s job to call out the woman in the pew in the short skirt? No, it’s the parishioner’s job to be kind, to deal, and to focus on Christ, and to talk to the pastor about it if it’s a big problem. The pastor is the one to address it with the individual.
Leila says
Your son needs to be taught *by his dad* that it is not his place to comment on a girl’s modesty or lack thereof. It is a serious lack of chivalry, of good manners — I’m sure he simply doesn’t realize that.
We really have to teach our boys well in this regard. Custody of the eyes is a positive thing. It means the person is looking away from what is immodest. If you are looking away, you are simply not seeing it. As I say in the post, teach your boys to look in the girl’s eyes. In this way, they will help the girl to feel her own worth and she will come to the correct conclusions on her own.
I cannot stress this enough. Modesty has many aspects. For a woman, it includes (but is not limited to) modesty in dress. But a man doesn’t have the same duty about dress, although as I say in the reading club about the book, men ought to dress respectfully and appropriately. Instead, the man has a complementary duty, which is to refrain from seeing what is not appropriate.
The reality is that many men do not have any knowledge of this duty and that is why the father needs to insist that his daughter dress modestly (always, but more so in our time, as the fashions are going against us). But if we are teaching our sons, we will be sure to let them know that this is the case: they must not speak to or about an immodest woman or girl (other than in the normal way with parents to figure things out and so on).
The father or the priest is the only man who should ever say anything (and the priest should say it to the parent in the case of a minor). I hope the priest you mention does not suggest that boys say anything to girls. That would be counterproductive and as I say, ungentlemanly.
Rebecca says
Wait, Leila! I am getting confused about all this. Historically, I have wondered why “good” father’s I know have allowotheir daughters to dress so scantily. Is a man who has custody of the eyes more likely to fall into the trap of being blind to his daughter’s immodesty? Or is more likely a man who hasn’t developed custody of the eyes?
Leila says
They have relinquished their authority. The teens are ruling the roost. And the mother is dressing the same way. It’s a desensitization, promoted by the whole society (very much the school!)
I wonder if these same people (the ones I observed) will be grieved in a few years when their lovely daughter becomes hardened, showing signs of having been deeply hurt and learning to cover that hurt over. It makes me so sad.
Rebecca says
Thank you for answering my question. My husband and I have mulled this over so many times. It helps to have you in on our conversation. 🙂 Please excuse my typos in the above comment. I got a little worked up!
Maria says
@Dixie, good points! I am not sure the context, like if the group is discussing it or if he is being consulted? I hope he isn’t just telling people something like “hey those shorts are too short”! But we will have to maybe make sure he isn’t. I have vaguely discussed it with the moms of the girls because we are all good friends, but our only daughter is two right now (the other six are boys) and so it hasn’t been on my radar. But they have said something like their girls don’t want to be the weirdly dressed ones, so they dress as they do. I can see the difficulties involved, like Leila discusses above! Just haven’t yet had to deal with them! Anyway, yes, what you say makes sense.
@Leila, maybe my words are getting changed around in type, sounds like perhaps you thought I was thinking custody of the eyes, etc, was a bad thing. Definitely not, and we aim to teach it, if perhaps not in those exact words, though maybe having a name for it would be helpful! I will ask my husband about it, though our son is nearly eighteen and very independent, quite sure he is ready to be out of the house and learning a trade, in fact is away for the summer working and attempting to secure employment for after the summer (he is back in the community we moved from recently, near grandparents and a solid Catholic community, but not near us) so I will ask my husband about it and maybe he can talk to him anyway. Just seems a bit out of our reach.
The priest just has a talk from a class he was giving wherein he discussed, I think it was originally, how boys and men have a sort of St Joseph role in this, protecting and guarding women, and women in their turn, should uphold this in their modest conduct/dress. To my knowledge, he didnt encourage boys to be correcting friends, nope. Our son, agreed with you, should not be. I assumed when he talked about it that he was responding as opposed to initiating, but maybe I was wrong!
Anyway, anyway, thank you all for your thoughts/ideas, will talk to my husband!
Tara says
If a handsome young man had indicated to me that modesty were wanted, I would have listened to him more than to my parents. Brothers and friends do have a role to play here. I remember hearing friend’s brother comment on the outfit of a passer-by, something like blimey get some clothes on. that one comment made more of an impression than modesty talks and anything I’d been taught. I guess I didn’t believe it was a real problem until I heard it from a young man.
Jenny says
Bonnie, I just checked out your clothing website and the clothing is just beautiful! Any chance you will be adding womens’ skirts soon?
Jenny
Bonnie says
Jenny,
Thank you! Yes, we hope to soon. We are very new at this and have been having some trouble with photo shoots/editing etc. We will always send out an email for new arrivals if you sign up to get updates!
lisainmaine says
Just signed up. Thank you!
Hannah Q says
Thank you so much for the swimwear company suggestions, Bonnie!
Bonnie says
Of course! Happy to help!
Andrea says
Check out calypsa.com for some lovely, feminine, modest, comfortable swimwear!
Vera says
I have been wearing shorts to the beach for ages! I got my swim shorts on Amazon. I also really like Lands’ End for modest swimwear. My daughter is only five but it’s definitely an awareness! Thank you so much for this post
Elizabeth Turner says
Whole heartedly agree. Ecuppers is a swimsuit company that my daughters and I have ordered from for a long time now. Pay attention to the sizing and suggestions. The suits are well made and lovely.
It’s a bit odd to insist that our daughter’s dress in a modest fashion and then allow them to be naked on the beach or poolside. Anyway.
In addition to the boy shorts sewn into the suits, I wear longer bicycle shorts. I actually don’t mind swimming because I feel covered. Yay!
Katie says
We love Calypsa swimwear (formerly known as Modli). My oldest is 8 and she very much prefers her Calypsa swimsuit (short sleeve shirt, skirt with attached leggings that go almost to her knees) to even her Lands End shirt/skirt swimsuit. And I’m a huge fan of their nursing top! My mom came over and talked to me while I nursed my 1yo at a public pool and she had no idea I was nursing!
I’m very thankful that my husband has been insistent on this. Hopefully consistency on certain clear lines of modesty from the days they were toddlers will make it easier in 10 years when we have 4 teen/preteen girls in the house!
I’m also making some decisions for our homeschool year based on your book! Thanks to you and Elizabeth Foss I just deleted a big section on science from our curriculum, and am recommitting to nature study, with guidance from Ambleside Online’s suggestions. So, thanks for helping me feel at peace doing that 🙂
Justina says
Katie, care to share what you deleted and why? Curious like only a fellow homeschooling mama can be. 🙂
Katie says
Justina, sure!
We loosely follow the Mater Amabilis curriculum, and they revamped their science plans over the last year or two, and I was so overwhelmed last year with my second grader! After reading Charlotte Mason’s “A Philosophy of Education” and then confirmation of her approach in Leila’s Summa Domestica, and looking into Ambleside Online’s approach, I deleted a big chunk of the Mater Amabilis weekly plan when I printed it out this week, and am opting for recommitting to nature studies, guided by Ambleside Online’s focus areas and the Handbook of Nature Study.
S says
The MA curriculum is great in many aspects. I particularly like their plans for Level 3 (middle school). My oldest is heading into Level 4 this year. I just want to chime in and say that I’ve always ever used nature study and nature lore books in Levels 1B & 1A for my kids and I have no regrets. Hope you have a great year, Katie!
Lisa Beth W. says
Absolutely. Never sacrifice modesty because of peer pressure. And get Dad on board, for sure. He can help them understand what it’s like for the guys, and as the leader of the home is ultimately responsible for what they wear, too! We have five daughters, and thankfully they did not fuss much because they were trained from babyhood up to consider modesty in dress. It is a gift to the young men they spend time around, also. Especially the Christian young men who have enough of a struggle amidst the skin exposure all around them.
Melissa says
I highly recommend Jessica Rey swimwear. She is a Christian former actress and all her modest swimsuits are made in the US and are very pretty. I bought a “swim dress” (2 piece with long skirt attached to the top, with high waisted bottom) because I wanted to be free to run around after my kids without feeling exposed. And I do really think there’s something to be said about not obsessing in the back of one’s mind over how your body looks, whether this or that skin is shaved or attractive enough to not elicit disgust from others…I feel much freer not having to think about that at all. The dress is long enough that I wore only a linen tunic as a cover up to walk to the beach.
Many friends of mine who were raised conservatively modest have gone in the opposite direction and have struggled with seeing their bodies as inherently sinful (we were raised very Protestant fundamentalist) and while I understand their struggles, I still feel most happy with my body when it’s presented attractively and yet modestly.
Leila says
Yes, I agree! Attractive, modest!
Justina says
These are lovely tasteful swimsuits that the females of the large, Catholic Rivers family started up. This would be a great place to start as they are both modest and stunning.
https://thehermoza.com/
Aunteater says
I hated swimsuits when I was a teen. Emphatically did NOT want that much visible, and always wore a big T-shirt over my one-piece suit.
Then, an absolutely magical thing happened: Nylon surf shorts became popular. I think a lot of people must have felt the same way as me, because they have been there in the swimwear section ever since, in every length from shorty-short to knee-length.
Then, as if that wasn’t a big enough gift, now that I’ve reached middle age, the world of available-everywhere swimwear has produced yet more wonderful things: first, rash-guards became a thing. Then it turned out there was a whole range of “workout clothing” made of exactly the same stuff as swimsuits, and “swim dresses” but available for sale all year round, not just in summer– plus all the triathletes and wannabe triathletes wear some version of these, so it’s normal now.
And then, just to put the cherry on top of all that, kneeskin suits hit the olympics, and all of a sudden all the serious swimmers were wearing knees-to-neck or even ankles-to-neck suits, and anybody who even pretended to be a serious swimmer could now get a suit to cover as much as they liked, and not even look weird at the pool! And, you know, I think somewhere in there a large subset of people realized sunscreen was toxic and the market opened up for sun-guard type swimwear, which overlaps a lot with the rest.
I don’t have girls, so I don’t have to worry about that. But these days, I have tons of options that leave nothing exposed but my arms, and legs from the knees down– not even any cleavage!. And it’s brilliant. The swimwear scene has never been better.
Lynn says
For our daughter, we just do swim shorts and a swim shirt. It’s been fairly easy – buying swim dresses can be so expensive.
One thing that I’ve noticed, and I think this is why most parents cave with dress issues, is that it’s never been meant to be “parents against the community.” It’s always been, in most times, “parents AND the community” standing against immorality. They both backed each other up. Nowadays, most parents are not strong enough to stand against a community and a culture that are undermining them non-stop. Case in point: We used to have some friends who dressed their daughters very, very immodestly (bum-exposing shorts, mini-bikinis, the whole thing), and our daughter – from a very young age, less than 5 – never stopped begging to wear the same thing. BUT THEN, we moved to a very modest parish where the girls all wear long skirts and all women veil, and suddenly our daughter is pestering us for longer skirts and her own veil. No effort required! All that to say that it’s super-hard when you’re working against a culture that is dead-set against modesty, when in reality it’s supposed to be a both-parents-and-everyone-else who are keeping young people on the straight and narrow. Finding supportive community is so helpful.
Also, I had heard of Agatha Christie’s signing of that letter, though I didn’t know that it bore her name. Super-cool. I am a soon-to-be non-Protestant, but as a Protestant, I totally would have signed it, even back in a time when I didn’t aspire to be Catholic. I have loved the mass since I first encountered it in high school, and that’s 25 years pre-Catholic!!
Love the blog, Auntie Leila. Thanks so much for stopping by to share your thoughts every week.
Leila says
You’re welcome!
Yes, the shorthand I was using is “maybe she needs better friends” — are they the best for her? You’re exactly right. What is the community surrounding us? We really need to ask that question!
Mckenna says
Just a supplemental thought on the modesty conversation. Many well intentioned parents of girls make the mistake of thinking their job is done as long as their daughter’s rear end is appropriately covered. Meanwhile, the crowd they’re running with is loud, obnoxious, and catty. I was at the pool with one of my children this week when a group of girls (12-14ish) came by. While the ring leader was in a 90s style string bikini, the other girls were dressed “modestly”. Yet the way they spoke and the raunchy things they were saying were more offensive than any thong could ever be. The whole “modesty” conversions complicated, but there is a temperament component that can’t be ignored.
Leila says
Indeed.
Modesty in dress is the necessary but insufficient component of this virtue, which relates to charity!
Anon says
Anyone else of two minds about this? Yes, I strive to dress modestly and have my girls to the same. But I think of beaches in Italy and Spain and wonder if we are reacting to a puritanical streak in American culture. (I do think that since we live here, we need to dress in a way that’s not overly provocative for the culture- I just wonder how much of it is cultural.)
Leila says
Certainly an extreme will pull everything over to its side.
It’s not puritannical to think that a girl’s privates should not be on view.
Things like this are cultural but the realistic approach is to look at a healthy (life-giving, fecund, prolific, flourishing) culture and see what they do.
As I said, we should strive to be attractive but modest. And parents should be aware that their pubescent daughters have an innocence and unspoiled quality that should be protected, because the dark underside of our very weirdly puritannical/impure culture is that it’s precisely those attributes that are most at risk.
Instead of accepting a false dichotomy (puritannical/permissive), let’s think with common sense and a cheerful affirming practicality.
Iris says
Anon,
I, too, am of two minds. Of course it goes without saying that a girl’s private parts should not be on view, but I think this post defines modesty more conservatively than that, arguing for swim skirts, etc. A “tasteful one-piece,” or even a well-fitting bikini, can effectively cover up private parts. The fact that these suits usually require some attention to the bikini line ahead of time is not, in itself, embarrassing or immoral, any more than it’s embarrassing or immoral that tank tops require women to shave their underarms.
I also agree that a great deal (though not all) of modesty is culturally defined and has been throughout history. I think of sixteenth-century Englishwomen putting makeup on their nipples because their dresses were cut so low, or the Renaissance male costume of tights and a codpiece, or those semi-sheer Empire-waist dresses in the Georgian period. On the other hand, think of Victorian women required to cover their ankles for decency, first-century Jewish women in long, loose dresses and veils, and medieval housewives required to wear veils and wimples. We no longer follow any of these standards, the skimpy ones or the conservative ones, and though we are sometimes tacky and indecent now (think bikini bathing suits for toddlers), so could they be then.
On the other hand, it is a real thing that more modest clothing makes women feel less self-conscious and less preoccupied with the appearance of her own body. On the OTHER hand, singing quietly at the back of the choir makes most singers feel less self-conscious and less preoccupied with the sound of their own voice…but this is not a justification for advising all singers to do this all the time. There is a time to blend, and there is a time to shine. Prudential judgment involves knowing when to do what, and realistically assessing one’s own gifts and talents. If you can pull it off, you should stand out—at the right times. Beauty, if you have it, is a gift of God like any other, and not meant to be hidden away under a bushel basket.
On this subject, I really do have to add that the human body is not just gruesome (when viewed at the wrong angle from the back); it is also, from the point of view of most of the great artists of history, the most beautiful thing in a creation full of beautiful things. Many great artists have painted or sculpted the human body nude because it is beautiful. An attractive woman in a bathing suit that covers the essential places but nevertheless is not, by the standards expressed in this post, modest (i.e., it doesn’t include a little skirt, or it shows her midriff) can be beautiful and worth looking at for reasons that are not sexual. I fear that calling for an end to ordinary bathing suits because they may lead someone into temptation is to risk falling into the same trap the Bowdlerizers fell into when they tried to “clean up” Chaucer by excising the racy passages, or that the Victorians fell into when they covered nude Renaissance statues with fig leaves. It also, in my opinion, underestimates men by treating them as incapable of viewing the female body in other than sexual terms
I guess what I am arguing for is the exercise of judgment–prudential judgment–when a woman decides what to wear. What would look good (and remain modestly in place) on one woman would look absurd or grotesque on another. There will always be women who think they can pull off a bikini and are grossly mistaken, but that is not a justification for ruling out bikinis entirely, any more than the fact that some singers hog the mic even though they can’t carry a tune is a justification for ruling out microphones. I really think that it’s a mistake to suppress some things that are actually beautiful in the name of eradicating some, even a great number, that are ugly.
Please excuse the “novel,” I just felt that this post and its comments deserved a full response.
Sarah says
I like reading what you have to say.
Leila says
Why not rule out bikinis entirely? I mean one can’t as a matter of law 🙂 But as a parent?
I don’t understand why some immodesty (men in codpieces) makes other immodesty reasonable. Perhaps it’s just not fitting to emphasize one’s sexuality in such an overt way.
Iris says
Of course some immodesty doesn’t make other immodesty reasonable…it gives me comfort, though, to know that other cultures, even flourishing ones, have temporarily had absurd standards of dress but have recovered their sartorial sanity. 🙂
You do ask a valid question about what one would allow one’s own daughters to wear. Mine are too young yet to be eligible for two-piece suits, and will be for some years. Once they are teens, I am not sure whether I will permit bikinis or not–it might possibly depend on the cut of the suit, the build and age of the teen, the way the suit fits, and the venues where it will be worn. But I would not rule out bikinis entirely, in general, because I think they can actually be beautiful–that is, they contribute positively to the state of the world.
A lot depends, I suppose, on whether there is something inherently sexual about a woman’s midriff. I would posit that there is not, but I would be interested to hear arguments to the contrary.
Anon says
I am certainly not saying “in Spain they just go naked, let’s get rid of standards.” I am questioning what our standards are and should be; I did NOT have the experience of seeing a young girl with her privates showing! Certainly horrifying. I have had the opposite experience most of the summer, where my girls, in their bum-covering, high-necked Land’s End one pieces, had the least amount of clothing on in their peer group (this is the under 10 crowd); their peers wore skirted one-pieces or shorts and a long-sleeve rash guard. If that’s what they are more comfortable in, that’s fine! I just question whether that should be the standard (especially given their vitamin D levels with the rash guards!). My current personal view is that in the US, because of our weird overly prude/porn culture, my daughters should wear one-pieces (and as long as so much of their swimming is part of swim team, they definitely won’t be skirted!)But I don’t know that that’s what I’d enforce or even suggest in Europe.
The countries that I am most familiar with in Europe (Italy, Spain, France), do not, it is true, have a fully flourishing culture (I don’t think there is a country in the world that does!). But they do have a healthier view on relationships between the sexes, on the whole; their promiscuity rate is MUCH lower than the US, there is much less of a battle of the sexes in the home over chores, etc (the common French advice in totally secular blogs is that keeping the home in addition to your job makes your husband happy, so you should do it!), etc. (The promiscuity rate is in Western Europe, not talking about former soviet countries.) The women and girls do have a much more lady-like way of moving, so there is a physical factor in the swimsuit discussion. On the whole, there seems to be more of an acceptance of the sexual nature of the human person; it’s more integrated in to the person rather than either denied or exploited, the way it is in our weird prude/porn culture.
I would very much like to hear what a faithful Catholic European man thought, personally. I don’t know that it would make a difference for my rules within the United States, but I am still curious.
Jennifer says
It’s worth contemplating that something that is sacred is traditionally veiled.
Every woman’s body is sacred, and certainly it should not be covered because it is somehow shameful. On the contrary, woman is the pinnacle of beauty in the created world! To veil what is beautiful should reflect a sense of reverence, not prudishness. Starting with that in mind makes it easier to draw the appropriate boundaries.
As a bit of an aside, I never really understood modesty until I loved a good Christian man. I remember being so struck by the thought (after once wearing a shirt in front of him that I had thought *maybe/hopefully* wasn’t too tight…) that I never wanted anything I wore to cause him to struggle with purity of mind. It was a moment of grace that I would say profoundly matured my perspective.
Rebekah says
Almost wrote the same post. I moved to the tropical coast and frankly, my opinion on this issue has changed a lot. It’s just not the same issue for people down here.
I was forced to wear “modest” swim wear as a child because I was considered too fat for regular suits and frankly that hindered my enjoyment and athletic ability of the water. In our home We somehow manage to strike a modest balance without layers of fabric, and not having girls obsessed with how others see them is part of that equation.
Also as an orthodox Christian now, I was raised evangelical , I really struggle with the fundamentalist evangelical language that is slapped on the modesty issue. It just misses the important points by over focusing on appearance. If I didn’t already know that auntie Leila always strives for balance, I wouldn’t have been able to approach this particular post at all for how much it makes my heart cringe.
Kelsey says
I have been wearing swim skirts with attached boy shorts underneath for maybe three years now, and I will never go back to a regular swimsuit bottom, ever. Any article of clothing that requires such thorough and regular grooming of such a delicate area is absurd, as far as I’m concerned. Honestly. Why have women put up with this for so long? It is so baffling to me. Like many of the other commenters, once I found swimsuits that actually cover, I have found so much more enjoyment in swimming and outings to the pool or beach. Even as a young girl I felt so uncomfortable in typical bathing suits. Modesty is indeed freeing!
I think the comment about American puritanism is interesting. I have never been to an Italian or Spanish beach, but my husband and I honeymooned in Aruba at an adults-only resort that had a lot of European guests, and there were more than a few topless women on that beach. It made us both a little uncomfortable, but didn’t ruin our experience – for sure it would have been different if there were children around! It reminded me so much of my favorite chapter in Shalit’s book, the one that I think is titled “Modesty and the Erotic.” Her argument that modesty (which is so different from despising the body) protects the erotic is very convincing. When everything is on display, without any ceremony about it, it becomes very boring. Obviously, different cultures have had wildly different standards of modesty throughout history, but I think that the increase in modesty and concurrent improvement in the status of women as Christianity spread is worth paying attention to, as is the frequent example of how upper-class women have dressed throughout history as opposed to, say, slave girls.
Amelia says
Pope Pius XI’s decree on modesty really helped me clarify this issue, especially the point about universal and objective vs. culturally conditioned standards. The standard described doesn’t carry the same weight as an infallible teaching, but it’s the most authoritative place to start I’m aware of, and then I try only to dissent from it where there’s some substantive, well-founded justification. Since my feelings about modesty were formed in a lax culture and I wouldn’t feel uncomfortable in immodest garb, it’s important *not* to rely on subjective, ad hoc arguments, intuition, or my fear/pride about being stereotyped to guide me on this.
Etsy has swimwear shops if you have trouble finding something just right elsewhere. The particular shop I used years ago no longer exists, but I got skirted capri leggings and a flattering top made for me from swimsuit fabric by a mom whose shop helped her be able to stay home with her kids. It was reasonably priced and, though our budget was tighter then, money well spent!
Leila says
I think his directives need to be taken without excessive legalism, and I say this here for the benefit of moms who are going to email me 🙂
He’s writing to Sisters who run schools. His guidelines are not intended for the general population *as written in stone* — imagine, a Pope not writing for the general public! And yes, objective guidelines, but also *to a certain extent* modesty is subjective (not only for what others are doing but for climate… ).
I encourage women to take the spirit of what he says. I don’t think we should go around measuring the distance from the collarbone to the neckline. People are built differently and what works for one woman may not work for another.
I liked the rule made in Rosie’s college choir (this is Harvard, in the early 2000s — hardly a bastion of traditionalism): cover shoulders and knees. (Not talking about bathing suits, obviously!)
See how practical that is? Common sense dictates that necklines not plunge and midriffs not be exposed. Common sense indicates that we even be careful of the “leggings and a top” idea… which can be all too revealing…
Attractive and modest (not revealing).
Ah… common sense…
Rebecca says
Movement is something I think a lot of women and girls don’t think about when trying on clothes. The worst are the tops that seem to cover everything important, until some leans over the table, picks up a toddler, reaches over their head ect. These girls don’t mean to be un modest, they are just caught in the trap of trying to balance fashion and modesty and not thinking it all the way through. I might make a checklist when my girl(s?) gets bigger.
Sarah says
What a lovely conversation! And the sunburns are so much rarer on skin that isn’t suddenly on view. There was a lady at our local beach who had a satiny caftan that billowed around her knees. She had stunning posture and a lovely smile. She was just amazingly beautiful, and all covered up. I do love a good beach dress.
I really enjoy some of the chapters in the Elsie Dinsmore series about that family summering at the shore. The books require some mental editing, but their descriptions of lovely, modest girls and ladies are lovely. They are wealthy and are often called beautiful, but they dress simply and enjoy simple pleasures. They try to stop thinking of themselves, how they look and are admired, and focus on the beauty of God’s creation there. It’s a nice reminder to me see the souls around me, to stop comparing, for heaven’s sake, and enjoy the horseshoe crab my kids just found.
Thank you, Auntie Leila, for the good reminder so lovingly given!
Tara says
I have friends from other countries who insist that Americans are excessively prudish on the beach and excessively sloppy while off the beach. (I agree on the latter point!) They have no qualms about changing into and out of their skimpy swimsuits right out in the open on the beach. My question is, could this be correct? That standards of modesty are this culturally subjective or dependent on the context? They are so astonishingly blase’ about this, it makes me doubt myself.
Maria says
No answers, but adding my experiences to consider. In Russia and Ukraine this is mostly the case, but on the other hand promiscuity is rampant there and so, accordingly, is abortion. I don’t know at all if that correlates with western Europe, and I don’t know that one causes the other, but just wanted to say that because whereas they have a somewhat more laid back approach to the one, their approach to the other is also “laid back” but harmful. ((Story not indicative of anything, just thought it was funny: once we were at a water Park, in Russia, in December, and I had not brought a suit with me at all, not expecting water activities in Russia in Dec-Jan, ha! But anyway, my sisterinlaw offered me any of her very minimal bikinis, which I declined.. Just too little coverage for having had a couple babies and still nursing one! I opted for a tank top/shorts combo and she was highly skeptical: “you will attract way more attention it that crazy get up than in anything else!” I wore it anyway))
Elizabeth says
I agree, that modesty can’t be completely subjective. Yes, culture plays into it, but there still must be some standard. I grew up going to Spanish beaches (my grandmother was from Spain) where many women were topless (interestingly many of those women were tourists from other countries in Europe). It definitely wasn’t the majority, maybe 30% of the women. I don’t completely know the history, but I know my mom said that it wasn’t always like that and that there was a swing towards more nudity on the beach after changes in Spain’s political history.
I think that intention can play a role somewhat. There is a difference between quickly changing clothing vs. provocatively displaying your body for others to see. But again, I’m coming from a woman’s perspective and I know that I don’t experience these things the same way a man does!
I also find it tiresome when people argue that breasts aren’t inherently sexual and that men in native cultures where women are topless don’t view them that way. Yes, the function of the breast to feed the child is not sexual, but developing breasts is a signal that a girl is becoming a woman and is sexually mature. It is more of a both/and situation rather than an either/or. I liked Kelsey’s comment above too about the differences between how upper-class and slave women would have dressed in history.
Leila says
It’s kind of funny, though…
The people who are saying “well in Spain they just go nude” aren’t suggesting that we do that here in the US. Instead, they say it to make limiting, demanding, and overtly sexual dress (even for barely pubescent girls) seem like not a big deal.
Again, it’s a false dichotomy: nude vs. skimpy. The truth is that before the mid-20th century, bathing costumes had coverage and no one thought of nudity (other than men bathing with other men only, and even that was not universal).
Let’s make the beach reasonable and not a pedophilia zone.
BridgetAnn says
“Let’s make the beach reasonable and not a pedophilia zone.” Right?!
Swimsuits are presumably for …. swimming. At the risk of being crude, there are other (obviously immoral and inappropriate) places set aside for scantily clad women. Let’s call a spade a spade. Is the bathing suit and consequent behavior of the wearer oriented toward swimming or str*pping?
Are you out of the water? Throw on some shorts. Going to the snack shack for lunch? Wear that coverup. In the water? Make sure you don’t drown by taking off the non-water clothes and enjoy a swim!
Amanda Danziger says
Yes, I often wonder if fathers who don’t notice their daughters’ outfits are just desensitized by pornography. Also, I’m a fan of rash guards for boys too, there are too many pedophiles with cell phone cameras out there.
Clara says
This is a wonderful conversation. I have changed quite a bit in my thinking on modesty; as an adult catholic convert that is to be expected. I cringe thinking of the things I was allowed to (barely) wear as a teen. I was never given any standards by which to shop or dress myself. Something I am changing with my children, both boys and girls.
As for bathing suites: I like a new company – Honey Mark – they make bathing suits that allow moms to bend and twist and reach while keeping everything covered. Nursing friendly too! 🙂 My friend wore one of their romper suits to the pool and I liked it so much I ordered one too. They have shorts, rompers, and skirts/dresses. They just started a children’s line of bathing suits too.
Leila says
Oh believe me I was hopeless! The 70s were not the best for a girl to come of age in. I had to learn so much.
Mrs. T says
Auntie Leila, not only do you truth-bomb us with the initial post, but you leave little nuggets of wisdom in your links. I always appreciate those.
In regards to making your eight yr old wait for lunch and learn to obey: I had this sneaky suspicion recently, with my oldest, a teenager. He’s much more demanding than my others. I “blame” it in part to my ignorance at the time as a young mother, but also my ability to be available to him at all times. Another reason a large family is a bonus. The subsequent children tend to have less of this demand as they age due to mom being preoccupied with something else!
Emily says
It’s sad how much of true fashion has been lost amongst all this nonsense of today’s clothing, as well. I remember as a teenager who was returning to the faith in the early-mid 2010s, it seemed as if our only clothing options (from the major retailers we were accustomed to) were formless maxi dresses and a scarf. For a while it seemed as modesty just meant a renunciation of “fashion”. It can be especially challenging sometimes for the young with fuller figures. You really have to know and develop a sense for how clothing will translate to YOUR body. We do not teach these things to our children anymore.
If you have a larger chest, some clothings that are completely innocuous on your friends are not so on you. Likewise for the taller women out there – skirts become appallingly short rather quickly, but you’re also less likely to be drowned out in the “midi” length style. Being on the shorter side, I know 90% of dress that are mid thigh on the internet models will not be so when I wear them – usually right at the knee for me. There is so much that goes into the art of dressing ourselves well.
I have recently been quite taken aback within my own circle of relatively devout catholic women who have taken to wearing bikinis. They simply prioritize the “high waisted” bottoms that cover the lower stomach (as if that’s what the problem is) and not *too much* cleavage. I fear even more of the “traditional” laity are no longer being honest about some of these ways of dressing that have been so readily adopted in the past 3-5 years. I knew quite a few women who would have heartily lamented about the evils of bikinis in college, and here a half decade later, wear them without hesitation. Aside from my own distaste with them, I can’t imagine my husband EVER letting me leave the house wearing the equivalent of my underwear in front of other married and single men in our friend group. I myself was appalled at the way my peers thought it was acceptable to dress in front of my husband at the beach outing. It felt hugely disrespectful to ME that they would reveal so much of themselves in front of my husband.
Alas, I’m ranting, but I fear the parents of our next generation of Catholics have become even more plagued with this problem.
Luana says
An honest question – don`t you get really cold on the beach, after swimming in swimm-dress, or swimm-skirt, or swimm-T-shirt etc.? Or do you change your bathing clothes every time after coming out of water? If so, how do you do that modestly, in front of all the people? And when it`s windy? And when you go swimming like every hour or two, like my family does, how many swimm-dresses would you need?
I do think this question about beach-modesty is culturally influenced.
Every other modesty-standard I wholeheartedly share with you.
I grew up in Europe (mediterran) and my catholic parents and their circle of good friends never had any problems with bikini. These were mums and dads who really took care to raise their kids in the faith and who talked to us about modesty etc. and dressed themselves beautifully and with dignity. But a comfortable bikini was never a problem. It was for swimming and lying in the sun and not for walking around, for that we would put our dress on over the bikini, which is so easy and takes only three seconds.
My mum and her girlfriends would remind us kids to stay in the sun after swimming till we dry well, before coming into the shade to rest and play, and they would tell us how good sun is for us and our health and how important for our bellies it is to be warm and dry. Isn`t that a good health concern?
Sun on the skin (of course not a burning midday sun) is a beautiful feeling and so so healthy. Also for our inner organs. And getting dry soon after swimming means we could spend more time in the water swimming, because you get warm sooner and don`t freeze. Also when it`s windy, you can dry yourself with a towel much better, if you wear bikini.
From my point of view – it`s healthy and it`s practical and in my oppinion it`s innocent if you are not wearing provocative bikinis or behaving unmodestly.
Even in a swimdress, you reveal much more than you would in a normal no-beach setting.
When we go to the beach, I love seeing our kids (and teens) going into and out of the water as they like, swimming a lot, drying fast, being mostly dry and warm when out of the water and not having to think about changing their swimm-robe in front of everyone or being cold and uncomfortable and therefor swimming much less for the sake of more modesty.
I myself don`t wear bikini anymore (my figure has changed due to pregnancies) and I wear a modest 2-parts-swimmsuit, and honestly – it`s nice and comfortable and I enjoy it only while I`m still dry. As soon as I come out of the water it is wet and cold and sticky and it is a pain to change into dry clothes. And it would be even more pain to put this on again while it`s wet. That`s why I swim much less now (only once or twice a day when we are at the sea), which I wouldn`t want for my kids.
I want my girls and boys to be able to simply enjoy water and swimming without extra burdens. We spend only few days a year (and not every year) at the beach and I want them to enjoy it to the fullest. Why would I want my girls to have harder time enjoying summer days at the beach, then my boys?
I am re-thinking about my swimming suit and really hope for the future that I can find a sporty comfortable bikini and enjoy our holidays much more with much more ease.
And about some males having bad thoughts when looking at the girls –
some of this our family can avoid, because we go to the little family-friendly beach with few people and avoid the big party-beach. And some of it we cannot avoid in this world, no matter how we dress our kids at the beach (or wherever), because someone`s sick imagination is sadly not in our control.
That`s my two cents from another perspective. Wishing everybody a beautiful summertime!
Leila says
We can’t control others’ bad thoughts, but we can control how much we are incentivizing those thoughts.
If it’s cold, put on a coverup! Change later or in the bathhouse.
A coverup goes a long way…
Rebekah says
I agree with you, for beach living , most “modest “ swim wear is unpractical and cumbersome. And many two pieces still meet modest standards. I have never seen any man acting or looking inappropriately at women on the beach where I live and the amount of women very very immodestly dressed is certainly low.
Rash guards are wonderful for after we have gotten our good healthy sun exposure or long days out surfing, but Americans have just plain gotten afraid of the sun.
The modesty debate in America is nearly as bad as our issues defining healthy food. Older cultures don’t seem to have a problem with that either.
Sarah says
Lots of opinions here! I think of my daughters and myself and would not like any of us to wear a bikini in public, even one that is not a string bikini- it is just like underwear. But a swimsuit- well, not much more coverage except over the middle, but somehow, by virtue of our society norms, I am fine with! I wonder why?! Appropriateness for the situation- my girls are active. They are in swim team many months of the year. They dive and jump in, do handstands and move in the water- and actually, a swim skirt just flies up anyway! A dress will end up around your middle! I get in with my young daughters in similar wear so I can catch them and not let them drown in the deep. I dive with them, have fun! I wear a rash guard and bottoms that will stay in place. Swim skirt? Just floats when you are standing in water anyway. Clings to your buttocks when walking out. Choose regular full coverage bottoms. Wrap that towel around when you exit the water!
But then for me, as I move throughout my various stations in life- no, I do not like a regular swimsuit when at a pool party with my husbands’ male friends and their family- I am a wife, a mother, and mostly on deck at that stage. I choose a little more coverage over the bottom as I am mostly out of the water. I wear a cover up when eating.
My teenage daughters will probably wear suits. Put a pair of shorts on when sitting around. Stay away from low cut. So hot where we live.
Part of it is just accepting if we are even able to swim in hot weather in a pool with others of the same or opposite sex, BODIES will fly! People will see! It is not the norm for our usual social setting, and we all have to accommodate some mishaps. Humor. Skin! I don’t really expect to see the hairy legs of my male friends at church but I don’t want him to wear leggings at the pool party. What a blessing we have in America to choose to cover ourselves appropriately for exercise and fun and then just…move on.
Leila says
I basically agree — a coverup goes a long way to solving these issues.
I wonder if everyone is really imagining what I saw, though… a really young pubescent girl in a skimpy bikini, bending over in front of strangers… I’m not talking about having a sense of humor, I’m talking about allowing our girls to become sexualized in a weird, CGI (eg abnormally hairless) way.
Sarah says
I’m sure I would agree with you Leila if I saw! And you raise a great point- how different it feels to be gazed upon by strangers, than to dress to swim among the averted eyes of trusted others- we mostly swim in closed circles or safe, family oriented places. So that is very sad.
Dixie says
That’s so gross, when young girls are dressed that way. It crosses a line. It’s not the “do you need a skirt or are pants okay” kind of prudential argument. It’s that you can literally see private parts or their outlines. She can’t play at the beach comfortable or safely. Ugh, it’s so wrong. I get discouraged seeing how young girls’ (pre-pubescent) clothing is cut to be “sexy.” There’s something extra wrong about a 6-year-old wearing a halter top cut to show off nonexistent cleavage or skintight pants with a word written across the backside. Or the one-piece bathing suits with holes cut out of them everywhere! In-store one-piece shopping for girls is a nightmare…all these perfectly good suits that then turn out to have giant holes on either side, or a deep keyhole neckline!! Stop!
Shari says
Thank you Auntie Leila and readers for your thoughts. This was very interesting to me as I’ve got teenage boys and we live in a city with many beaches and a strong beach culture.
Leila you gave some great advice in your blog in where you discussed healthy ways for teenagers to socialise. You said the parents still need to organize activities i.e bonfires, board games.
I think this pertains to the beach. Sports at the beach is good. A beach with big bunches of languishing teenagers is a beach to avoid. Meeting some families for a game of beach soccer, a swim with a ball thrown around and adults in the mix and then off to the shop for an ice cream before heading home is better. Getting up early for a run and swim with other locals before the crowds kick in.
Knowing you’re going to be active goes a long way to help everyone being appropriately dressed.
Having said this , I’ll have to discuss this further with the hubs to get prepared this summer…the imagery in this post was rather strong…
Jamie says
The problem I have run across with my oldest daughter is that she feels absolutely beautiful in her two-piece. As a woman who has never felt particularly comfortable in a bathing suit (other than swim shorts and a tank), I feel like maybe I should just let her enjoy it. I will admit, the thongs are too much of an eyeful and when we go to the beach it is annoying. I intentionally point them out “a lot of butts are out today” because it takes the edge off of the spectacle.
Dixie says
Would it help to explain to her that yes, she is beautiful in a two-piece! Of course she is! Her body is good and beautiful, and she will want to share that with her husband in marriage. The beauty of the parts of a body shown off by a bikini is something to share in the context of marriage. Yes, it is good and beautiful, she is so right! But it is also private. It’s special. Holy — “set apart.”
And then get her the very cutest one-piece and cover-up you can find.
BridgetAnn says
I know a very attractive mom who was asked years ago why she didn’t wear a bikini. Her answer was simple, but it said it all: “Because I can.”
Ashley says
I appreciate and agree with your post, but I wonder why only girls’ bodies are deemed “precious” and worthy of protecting with modest dress. What about boys/men? They are sexualized and taken advantage of as well. I’m curious to know your thoughts on this.
Leila says
I didn’t say that ONLY girls’ bodies are deemed precious and worthy, so I wonder why you say that. For a fuller treatment of modesty, please read the posts linked in this one, on the book A Return to Modesty by Wendy Shalit.
When you go to the beach, you will normally see girls in sexually provocative bathing suits (grown women and even grandmas too). You will normally see boys and men in bathing trunks. Hence my post.
If you see a boy wearing a sexually provocative garment, be assured that I deplore such a thing.
But boys and girls are different. The female is the one who bears the child within her body and suffers the consequences in a much more long-term way if things go wrong — and also is much less able to protect herself.
That’s reality. It does no good to deny reality — in fact, it leads to exactly the issue we see in our culture, which is a refusal to protect girls from what will harm them.
That said, any untoward focus on the body with the aim of sexualizing it is unhealthy and ought to be carefully guarded against by parents — let’s just protect our children!
Ashley says
Thank you for your reply. While you didn’t say that ONLY girls’ bodies are precious and worthy of protection, I just noticed that you didn’t mention boys in the post. I have daughters and a son and, of course, think about protecting each of them. I was simply curious to hear your thoughts—to find out if you indeed think that there is a difference between boys and girls and their need for modesty/protection. You addressed that in your reply and I’m appreciative! I especially like the last two paragraphs. Thanks for sharing your energy and wisdom with us through your writings!