Welcome new readers! Perhaps you are searching for information about homeschooling, given the disruption caused by the pandemic!
Here you will find a welcoming place and I hope, peace for your journey.
At Like Mother, Like Daughter we aim at encouragement to become competent at homemaking so that education can be accomplished — with “reasonable humble beauty,” not “staged perfection.” (Hence the plastic bucket in the foreground of that photo, and all the fences to keep the chickens out of the seedlings!)
This blog was started by my daughter, Rosie; I somewhat took it over (with her permission) because I enjoy it and to try to answer questions that people asked and still ask me all the time about homeschooling. (Before they got very busy with their little ones, the daughters also joined in here.)
Unlike most bloggers I found when I started, I was further along on the path of parenthood. I had already seen my older kids off to college and beyond. I could assess what had been beneficial in their education and what hadn't — including my own shortcomings and the ways that our family could have done things better.
We homeschooled all but one of our seven children (the eldest, who had other opportunities). I had my ideals and my dreams. Reality falls short of the perfection we have in mind for ourselves, but fortunately, all that depends on us is that we try; that we care enough to give our best effort. God will do the rest.
I have tried to convey the things I learned so that you don't have to reinvent the wheel. We talk a lot about the collective memory, mainly in the context of how it has been lost, sadly. When you get serious about educating your own children (which is really your primary duty as a parent) you realize how much goes into doing it and how little you know.
I had to figure a lot of things out totally on my own (and remember, no internet). I blog because my thought is that maybe you can benefit from what I learned.
I also try to convey what I wish I had done. But always with a sense of realism and what I hope comes across to you, dear reader, as affirmation when the process seems difficult and not something you feel much equipped to do.
Since I am working on the book that will put everything here in order (I hope!), I haven't been posting as much as I used to — mainly a weekly round-up of links preceded by a few thoughts or even just a picture or two. The links are always meant to stimulate the intellect and imagination — your own and your children's.
If you look up at the menu bar, search the categories on the sidebar, and browse through the archives, I think you will find the help you need to educate your children in the context of a home established in Order and Wonder.
By the way, as I'm working on the book, I realize that in the more than 10 years I've been posting, with so much about reading, writing, history, science, and all, I've never really written about teaching math! Do you have questions about that? Ask away!
bits & pieces
(If you sign up with your email, you will receive this round-up of links every week (mostly) in your inbox! Or just check back with us… )
- For a strong introduction to classical education: Thomas Mirus has a podcast with Andrew Kern of the CIRCE Institute: Ep. 74—What Is Classical Christian Education?—Andrew Kern (At the very end Thomas asks questions and Andrew gives great and very inspiring answers — do listen.)
- Why read Boethius? (I finished re-reading The Consolation of Philosophy this past fall. You will find no better guide to discovering what is worthy in life than this book; it will save you from pursuing the wrong “excellences” as people mistakenly call them.) (I could have done without the Pope Francis reference at the end, full disclosure.)
“Lewis thought that an old book like The Consolation could serve as a balm to the myopia of the modern mind. Old books are the “clean sea breeze of the centuries blowing through our minds,” he rhapsodically wrote. We read old books not to provoke some kind of antiquarian fetish for the past. Nor do we read them to conjure nostalgia to assuage our discontent with the present.”
- “This Book of Hours, referred to as the Black Hours, is one of a small handful of manuscripts written and illuminated on vellum that is stained or painted black. The result is quite arresting.”
- At the passing of Rolf Hochhuth, author of a play deriding Pius XII as an antisemite, I thought I would link to this fascinating and in-depth interview with Roy Schoeman on this subject. Roy is a convert from Judaism and the author of the book Salvation is from the Jews (affiliate link) — he is also a friend of ours and someone we greatly admire:
“The current spate of calumnies against the Church, and Pius XII, are clearly revisionist history, frequently coming from fallen-away “Catholics” out to negate, I'm tempted to say destroy, the Catholic Church. So I think that anti-Semitism serves as an extremely useful cover for enemies of the Church to attack Catholic Faith and morals and practices and Doctrine; and to sully the reputation of the Church.”
- Long ago (before I had children, 40 years ago), I realized that sex ed in schools was such a problem that one simply could not cooperate with the system at all. I realize, however, that some parents are still in the process of being convinced. Cathy Ruse has worked on this issue for a long time. Read what she has to say: Sex Education in Public Schools: Sexualization of Children and LGBT Indoctrination.
- Still didn't get to the “good” Education/Homeschool Summit, the conference that counters the destructive Harvard one? It's here.
from the archives
- How do you say my name? Why Auntie Leila?
liturgical year
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And the others on IG: Rosie’s Instagram. Sukie’s Instagram. Deirdre’s Instagram. Bridget’s Instagram.Habou’s Instagram.
Stacy says
Math! The eternal question, what order for high school math, starting what year? PSAT in October of junior year has a lot of algebra 2 questions, which my student didn’t take until junior year. Oops! She is on track with Seton and taking saxon math. Too many books, not enough years. And then people talk about other math programs, and not having enough math in high school to get admitted to xyz college (engineering). I just want to throw in the towel! Too many choices, too many strong opinions and “experts”. You’re the voice i want to hear though.
Carol Kennedy says
This, precisely, is what first attracted me to your blog—here, finally, was someone with a track record: “Unlike most bloggers I found when I started, I was further along on the path of parenthood. I had already seen my older kids off to college and beyond. I could assess what had been beneficial in their education and what hadn’t — including my own shortcomings and the ways that our family could have done things better.”
Diana says
“Reality falls short of the perfection we have in mind for ourselves, but fortunately, all that depends on us is that we try; that we care enough to give our best effort. God will do the rest.”
I love this!
Also, as Carol notes above, I love that you have the track record. So many new-mama bloggers are blogging at a time when they should really be learning from others rather than trying themselves to teach others. (I fell into this trap myself.)
Thank you!!
Nicole Cox says
I *would* be very interested in your math takes. We just finished Year 1 (1st grade) with my eldest. My own math education was rather poor, in that it was basically Abeka and Saxon, which rely heavily on algorithmic methods and memorization and drills, and very little else. Naught about the beauty of math and absolutely nothing about *how* numbers work, and *why* those algorithms work the way they do. Also, NO mental math training, grr! That’s actually the one thing that would come most in handy in “real life”! As a colleague of my hubby’s who teaches math likes to say, “You need to be friends with the numbers” and I can’t say I had that education in school growing up. So we decided to use the Miquon math series to start out because it uses Cuisenaire rods to solve things at the early stages, requires lots of figuring out slowly *how* to arrive at an answer, and other aspects of math that I want my kids to learn.
I’d love to hear other tips about teaching the true, good, and beautiful when it comes to math! 🙂
Liz Lockhart says
I’ve been reading this blog for years, I’m honestly not sure how long. But homeschooling in the UK is not such a thing as it is in the U.S, and a search for a question one day lead me here. It’s been a gentle holding hand and has helped with so many things. I’ve just had a quick glance at the instagrams – when did the babies all grow up?!! Tempis Fugit. But thank you, after 11 years of home ed’ my two went to college last Autumn. I still dip back in, and some of your recipes are family favourites. xxx
Jamie says
Oh you should definitely write a post on teaching math – I’d be interested in your thoughts! My oldest is just finishing 7th grade – he’s working on Saxon Math 7/6. We work hard. I bought the Art Reed DVDs to help explain the lessons. He does a full lesson and we fix errors. He sometimes makes sloppy errors because he loves to try to do things in his head instead of write them on paper. I feel like he is doing alright in math (he gets Bs on the tests when I have him take them) though you hear of so many homeschool kids being ahead sometimes it is easy to feel discouraged. I know that moving ahead and not getting the basics is a really bad idea though. I feel the opposite of the post above – I think my kids are getting a great education in mental math from Saxon (I make them do the mental math problems in every lesson.) Then there is the issue..should you really do every problem of the whole book? Maybe if you are a math genius you don’t need to…but for the average or struggling math student maybe they really do need it? And if you never quite finish the book – just move them on up? I have trouble finishing the book because we go to a once a week classical program for history, science, art, and performing arts so it is hard to get in 5 days sometimes. I think a lot of people in whatever homeschool programs would be having the same issue. There are so many little decisions to work out as the teacher!
Jaci says
My eldest finished 1st grade this year; I would loooove to hear your experiences with math. S
There are so many opinions and options out there. I am too overwhelmed to even try to imagine researching all the options.
Vera says
Thank you for this post! It made me so happy that you addressed new readers. I often feel so left out of a blog when I find one already in the works for a decade…and I am beyond thrilled to find out that you are writing a book. I need all the help I can get! I have a 3 year old and a 1 year old and I don’t see how homeschooling could possibly be realistic in the context of caring for small children and maintaining sanity…you’ve thus far inspired me to start a home library and I am working on that. I have to read your entire blog pretty much so…hopefully I can catch up!
Anamaria says
I saw your re-tweet about communion in the hand vs the tongue- our parish (and diocese) is strongly encouraging in the hand and it’s certainly not ideological. Our parish and others in our diocese are only having deacons and priests administer; there’s also a return to ad orientem, at least in a few parishes.
(Yes, perhaps, they are unduly valuing safety above reverence; I don’t know. But it’s certainly not a personal or ideological preference in this case)
I’d really love to see the safety info about that, for myself, and possibly to pass along to a family member with a heart issue and another who works in our diocese. I know it would bring peace to many.
Sorry, I’m not on twitter so I can’t ask there.
Tarynkay says
I would love to hear about teaching math! We were forced into school at home due to the quarantine. It was rough at first. Then we quit doing the official virtual school, which is not required anyway here. Now I do not know if we will ever go back. My second grader is so much less stressed out and it’s been great for our family.
We are currently doing Khan Academy online for math. We did this because we were completely unprepared to take over his education. It’s not like I had a math curriculum sitting around just in case! That said, I really like it and he’s doing well so far. But this is my first rodeo and I don’t really know what I’m doing, so I would love your experienced insights.
We have always tried to do a lot of real world math with our kids as well. For example, baking, money, building things, and card games. He is getting pretty good at Blackjack. You know, life skills…
Christina A says
The Boethius article was wonderful! My husband recently read and enjoyed How to Be Unlucky by Joshua Gibbs (who writes frequently for The Circe Institute blog); it’s based on The Consolation, with an emphasis on education. My husband promptly loaned it to a teacher friend of ours, so I’m waiting my turn to read it. 🙂 Here’s a little excerpt: https://www.circeinstitute.org/blog/how-be-unlucky-sample
Janet says
Hi Leila. My children are all grown now, so I am not current on textbooks, but I wanted to share my experience. Kids all got 800’s on the math part of SAT’s without any test prep and one went on to get a PhD in math. I tutored math for many years, and after the kids all left home, I got a teaching certificate for high school and middle school math. So perhaps my thoughts have some backup. This is kind of a brain dump. Sorry I don’t have time to edit and organize.
0. Never say stuff like:” I hated math. I’m bad at math. I can’t remember my times tables. I don’t get fractions. My teachers all taught math wrong, but this book/approach that I never used will make you good at math”–just reign in the negativity and excuses. If you couldn’t read a fourth grade level book, you would consider it a tragedy and something to get help with ASAP. Not being able to do fourth grade math is neither cute, nor endearing nor feminine–it is a tragedy. Get help. Maybe hire a tutor for your children and learn along with them. Maybe barter tutoring for something else. Your kids need a human being, not just a screen.
1. Algorithms are very important. Understanding sometimes has to come later. For example, the algorithm for long division cannot be understood without a firm grasp of algebra.
2. Memorization of number facts is super important. Just like you can’t do literary analysis if you can’t recognize the letters of the alphabet, you can’t think about math if you can’t do some mental estimates and you can’t do that if you have to add 7 + 9 on your fingers or have to agonize about what 7 x 8 equals. If math facts and basic algorithms are not automatic, they take up too much mental energy to allow creative and insightful math thinking. You can’t recognize common factors in fractions or algebra if you don’t know division/multiplication facts cold. Written speed drills are NOT necessary and can be counterproductive if handwriting speed is the limiting factor. Memorization is not the end, only the beginning. Just as knowing the alphabet is necessary but not sufficient for literacy, knowing number facts is necessary but not sufficient. BTW, having difficulty memorizing number facts has nothing to do with math ability–don’t assume your children are bad at math if this takes some time.
After teaching facts, practice fact families: 5 + 6, 6 + 5, 11-5, 11-6 or 3 x 4, 4 x 3, 12/3, 12/4. Four related number sentences that all refer to the same physical objects. Show how that reduces the memorization by a factor of 4.
3. Handwriting matters some. At least half of the boys I taught had trouble with math because they couldn’t write numbers clearly and efficiently, keep lines and columns straight, and read their own writing. This is part of handwriting instruction, not math.
4. We tried Saxon briefly for 5/6 and high school. AVOID SAXON MATH! (unless your kids really love doing 40 problems a day and are making good progress without nagging and beg to keep doing it–I still don’t think it’s a good use of anyone’s time). Saxon seems to be a favorite of parents who hate math/are bad at math. Would you take recommendations about orchestras from someone who hates classical music and is tone deaf? Saxon has way too many problems and is tedious, but each new concept comes with only a few practice problems, so if your child needs more practice to cement a particular concept, you have to look in the index to find one problem in each of three dozen different chapters–not nearly so “self teaching” as is often claimed. Saxon is no more “incremental” than any other math book–same amount of material in same length book. Saxon boasts that is uses sophisticated vocabulary. It does not–it just uses big words in silly pretentious ways–use real literature to help your kids expand their vocabulary. The algebra book likes to make it hard to assign variables:”If Suzy, Sam and Seth had camels, canaries and cotton, how many…?” See below for how badly they teach percents.
I’m less familiar with Abeka. Only used it for first and second grade. For that level, it had way too much work.
5. The most important concepts for grades 4-6 are fractions, especially equivalent fractions and then the use of ratio and proportion to figure out percents, converting units, and most word problems. Teach percents as proportions. Cross multiply and divide to solve for unknown. (point out that this is just making equivalent fractions. Saxon teaches half a dozen different confusing algorithms for percent problems presented in weird sentences that may never show up exactly in other contexts, when one ratio would cover it all.
Saxon: “5 is what percent of 20” ratio: 5/20=x/100
Saxon: “20% of what number equals 5?” 5/x=25/100
Saxon:”What is 25% of 20?” x/20=25/100
For equivalent fractions, cut up paper to show 2/4=1/2=1/8, etc. Don’t bother with fancy expensive manipulatives that you have to sort and store. Let your kids do some cutting too.
5. Our favorite books are older. Among the best for middle school were some intended for community college students taking remedial math. They are short and to the point.I hate “common Core” and so do most engineers and scientists.
6. I just found 3Blue1Brown on youtube. It’s founded by a former Kahn Academy staffer and it looks excellent for upper level math. Here is some modeling for epidemics https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxAaO2rsdIs&feature=emb_rel_end
For lower level practice, there is IXL math on line for free, complete with answer keys. Many other free practice sheets. Just put “free printable math practice” and the topic you want in a search engine.
Older children might enjoy “Journey through Genius”, a history of math for insight.
We liked Math Olympiads for the Elementary School” which consists of just 5 problems a month. Some homeschool math clubs use this–name may have changed slightly.
6. Most normal children can learn all of elementary school math in a single year, so don’t stress if they get a bit behind. I never assigned more than 5 problems a day–if they can’t learn in 5 or 10 problems, they’re just not ready. Use math in every day life, but don’t make it a “lesson”, just share what you do.
7. Understanding graphs and statistics, including how different formats can nudge non-math literate people to different assumptions, is super important for civic engagement. Most science and engineering relies on graphic representation also.
8. Hold off on the calculators for as long as possible. I’ve run into kids who reach for a calculator to multiply by 10, 100, or even 0 or 1. Don’t let that be your kid. Teach scientific notation to help with quick estimates involving very big or very small figures. Real math people do a lot of back of the napkin calculations and then use computers. Scientific calculators are mostly a public high school thing that never gets used in more advanced work. Even for SAT’s, GRE’s or the Math Praxis exam, most problems are quicker and easier to do without a calculator. You can teach calculators the year before SAT’s, but be sure your student knows how to think about problems and mentally estimate so they know if the answer they get makes sense. And tell them that most of the problems can be done more easily without a calculator. Teach them to eliminate obviously wrong choices. Punching buttons fast without understanding can give a lot of wrong answers, including the ones so helpfully supplied as distractors in a multiple choice test. Maybe use a calculator as a way of checking some answers or for tedious tasks like adding up expenditures. Good older high school and college level textbooks usually use small integers for teaching concepts so they don’t require calculators or tedious arithmetic. For trig, you want to be sure your child know the functions for 30, 60, 90 and 45 degrees well before using a calculator for stuff like cos 67.
9. After learning number facts through 9 x 9, kids might memorize squares of numbers to 25, square roots of 2,3, 5 to two decimal places, and Pi to two decimal places. For more decimal places, use a calculator or computer. They will pretty much automatically learn decimal and percent equivalents for 1/2, 1/4, 3/3, 1/8, 1/3, 2/3, and 1/5.
Anamaria says
I love this advice. I taught math for three years (two in a classical school) before getting married and I am now homeschooling my older children. This is all fantastic advice. What to add?
There are a number of good curriculum out there. With my early elementary children, I do a mix of Singapore math and Montessori math.
Montessori math is expensive; we have acquired most of the manipulatives as gifts. Elizabeth Hainstock’s book Montessori in the Home: the school years includes instructions for how to make them and is assuming its a supplement to a school curriculum. http://www.thenewdomestic.org/montessori-math
Has some instruction on things to do and what manipulatives are essential. This approach also has big start up costs in time for the instructor and might not be for people who don’t enjoy thinking about math. We all enjoy it so much in our house.
The Montessori approach assumes the child will eventual memorize facts by practice and then you fill in the rest. So far, that seems to be bearing out with my children. I don’t know that this is necessary, but some practice of what each operation IS is certainly necessary in addition to memorizing.
A good friend who is not a math person, married to an engineer, uses Right Start Math. It’s pretty incredible for an open-and-go math curriculum. I think of it as pricey because it is compared to Singapore ($60 for the year for your first child, half for additional- could be even less if need be) but I just looked up Saxon and it’s comparable in price- probably a little more about ten times as good. We occasional do homeschool days together and it is really fantastic for developing mathematical fluency/number sense/becoming friends with the numbers.
I also love both of these books: https://www.amazon.com/Developing-mathematical-fluency-Activities-grades/dp/1893799069/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=grayson+wheatley&qid=1591038894&s=books&sr=1-2
https://www.amazon.com/Coming-Know-Number-Mathematics-Elementary/dp/1893799042/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=grayson+wheatley&qid=1591041040&s=books&sr=1-3
My kids ASK to do math squares from the elementary book because they are FUN. They each contain five addition problems and are self-checking; they get more complex as the child learns. I used them with my middle school students and they all enjoyed them. Good for both struggling learners and bright kids who need opportunities to go deeper into math before they go on.
My only word about Saxon beyond what Janet said is that it can teach most kids math but it will not teach any children to love math.
Finally, math is about clear, systematic thinking (among other things that others discuss). It is essential for logic. Geometry especially helps budding logic-stage students how to follow an argument.
Jessie says
Janet, THANK YOU! That’s all very helpful!!!!
And to Auntie Leila, I just adore your blog. It’s pretty much the only thing online that I check regularly. It’s my absolute fave.
Janet says
A few more math comments. sorry to be so long winded. I hope some of it may help someone.
1. Most countries in the world that do better on international comparisons in math (PISA, etc.) introduce far fewer math topics per year, so there is more time to absorb and practice each new concept instead of a rush to cover a zillion topics each year and then needing to come back to them every year because no one really learned them in the first place. That approach kind of reminds me of my demoralizing experiences in PE: Each year they would haul out the gymnastics equipment, give us five chances to get do a vault, which I always failed and then it away until the next year, when it was even higher and more complicated stunts were demanded and I would fail again. Definitely not motivating.
2. I rather like Singapore Math, but with the caveat that I have only seen parts of it and not actually used it to teach. I like what I’ve seen and also what I’ve read about the approach.
3. Little kids can absolutely count on their fingers to start. Turns out there are PET studies showing that the part of the brain that does calculation is right next to the part of the brain that controls the fingers. Who’d have thunk? ;-). But eventually, bigger kids do have to memorize–not enough fingers to do everything, and too slow anyway.
Jess says
Hi, Auntie Leila, long time blog reader here, but usually feel quite out of my depths to comment although I enjoy reading other comments and have learned and grown so much though the blog. But I’m so excited about our math procedures, I have to share.
Thoughts on math from someone with 2 homeschool graduates, one is a civil engineer and 3 more in high school who have straight A’s in various maths. We begin Saxon at about the 6/5 level, using the DIVE CDs, and Rod and Staff for about 3rd through 5th or 6th. We only do the odd problems and if the student gets better than a 90 on that problem set, he gets to skip the next. If the next problem set is better than a 90, skip 2. If that problem set is better than a 90, skip 3. And so forth. Hope that is clear. Eventually, they come to a place where they have to slog through every lesson for a bit and once in a while they had to remediate after a poor test. It puts the comprehension and pace entirely in their hands, keeps the math study to less than 30 min a day and avoids all busy work. When/if they have to remediate, it’s on them to find the place in the extra practice problems or in the previous lessons that they need to strengthen. I find it’s nearly always an inaccurate or fuzzy grasp of a definition, such as what exactly is an acute angle vs. obtuse or the exact long division steps or what have you.
For the elementary grades, flashcards are mandatory with the goal of 100 correct answers in 3 minutes or less in each of the 4 basic operations. Once they achieve that level, those are done. We use Abeka in 1st and 2nd grades because they are colorful and we don’t need the teachers manual, etc. At that level, we don’t skip entire lessons, but “do these 2 problems perfectly and skip the rest like that on this page”. Lastly, a few years ago we established a buddy system with an older child to grade and teach a younger, which strengthens the older one- nothing like teaching to show you what you really know! When I learned from a good friend the method of such and such a grade means skipping a lesson, it revolutionized our math study. No more battles of wills over the daily math lesson, no more nagging, cajoling, prodding, bribing…
Some might think we are just a “mathy” family, but I’m not a college graduate and my husband is in healthcare. My oldest daughter is just 12 so maybe we got math mulligans with the first 5 sons, but she seems to be thriving on that same system of “skipping”. With 8 in homeschool currently, it’s also a big help to me without making me fear we are missing something important.
A couple of other thoughts, we skip the harder fractions at the Rod and Staff levels if they aren’t coming easily because we will see those again later. Also, the civil engineer son found that geometry in high school was a waste of time for his later studies.
The skipping routine could work with any math program, I imagine, and no need to spend hundreds of dollars a year on math “systems” such as Singapore.
Janet says
Jess,
Sounds like you’ve developed a system that works well for your family. This quote startled me though:
“[…] no need to spend hundreds of dollars a year on math “systems” such as Singapore.”
I would never encourage anyone to buy a “system” costing 100’s of dollars, so I went back to see if something had changed. Each semester-long Singapore Math book now costs $22.50 and includes practice problems and an answer key (separate answer key not needed). Looks like they offer lots of add on$ now, but I would skip that. The same textbooks are available used starting at $3.99 when I searched this morning. (Most textbooks are available for similar prices used, as long as you don’t need a dozen copies of the same thing.)
For readers who aren’t aware: most older textbooks are designed to assign just the odd numbers (with answers in the back) or just the even (without answers). Very few teachers assign all the problems or even all the odds or evens. The few who do usually justify it by saying they are teaching “discipline” or “work ethic”, or even “obedience”, not by claiming that doing all those problems is necessary to learn math. Personally I think discipline and hard work are better taught doing necessary tasks which are of service to others.
I’ve never told my students or my own children that they could skip a chapter if they did well on the previous chapter, since that tells me nothing about whether they know the new material they have not yet tried, but especially if I don’t know the student’s level well, I do give pretests (available in most textbooks). If they do well on the pre-test, they can skip that chapter.
Jess says
Thanks, Janet, I stand corrected. It’s been a while since I looked at math curricula, I’ll check my sources next time. 🙂
Laura Jeanne says
Auntie Leila, I’ve been reading your blog for a long time – probably almost since the beginning. The first post I read was about how to keep your small children warm by tucking in their undershirts – I loved your no-nonsense style of giving advice and I was a loyal blog reader from that day. Throughout my 20s my housekeeping skills were quite bad, and my parenting wasn’t super great either, and throughout my 30s you, probably more than any other single source, helped me to do so much better, bit by bit. Thank you for all that you do to make the world a better place.