Okay, Auntie Leila, we need your input!
My friend Jen and I have been reading your blog a while, and have benefited from your humor and down-to-earth advice on parenting. Particularly helpful has been your wisdom of parenting 12 -year-olds! ( I also love the “What Would Ma Do?” question!) [For the context of this question, see my post on how you might consider being less patient with your children.]
I have 5 children. Jen has 10. Our families, along with several other dear families in our community, have enjoyed raising our kids together, and our children have played countless hours in one another's back yards while moms have had coffee and solved the world's problems. Most of our close family friends also homeschool, and we are very blessed to have a community of mostly like-minded families.
Over the last year or so, we have seen a marked shift in the way that our children interact with one another, as many have crossed over into early adolescence. Flirtatious behavior, hurt feelings, insecurities and a concern for feeling okay and accepted have somewhat overshadowed the easy play times that our kids used to enjoy.
I realize that this is normal, as hormones rage and our children transition to adults. However, I am wondering if you have any practical advice for helping kids negotiate peer relationships, within the family setting, in a more graceful way during these years. Already, we largely go against the norm by homeschooling, and our kids' peer time is usually, almost exclusively, at our homes, with parents. We are here to help, but sometimes I just don't know how.
What is your best advice for moms with a house full of 11-15 year olds…their own and their friends'?
Thanks!
Shawna
PS: Congrats on two beautiful weddings!!!
Hi Shawna,
Thanks so much for writing! You are so lucky and blessed to have a wonderful community of friends. This is the way to raise children!
I think that your question touches on the big question of building the culture. Building the culture, when you think about it, is precisely the work of bringing children into adulthood! Every traditional culture has a systematic way that eases young people into their responsibilities.
Maybe this is what people mean by socialization, without realizing that conformity isn't the goal — raising responsible, self-controlled adults is. You learn self control just the way you learn any other skill — by being put to little tests that don't have a lot at stake, so that when the big ones come, you are ready.
A good start is to realize that you have to have rules and plans and standards for your teens, just as you do for your littles. You have to stay out of the picture more, giving them their freedom and time together, but you stay just as vigilant.
You are right — it's healthy in young people to show interest in each other. It's our job to channel it all in the right direction. Their environment matters. Is the TV where the bed is? Even if it's just your guest bedroom that you've made into a TV room, that needs to be re-thought.
Better ideas: Bonfires and other outdoor activities, a rec room that's not off the beaten path or never gone into by adults, contra dances and swing dances. Hikes and swim parties. Monopoly tournaments, Foosball tournaments — heck, poker tournaments.
I think it's fine for them to find places other than home, gradually, as they get older. A local sandwich shop once in a while for some fries, hiking, bowling… but they have to be reminded how to act, how to show courtesy to the shop owners… and no pairing off.
They hate being told that it's not a good idea to loll around, pair off, or engage in horseplay with the opposite sex or what have you — but they have to be reminded. Don't let the attitude get you down. Have standards and voice them. Let them know that you want them to have a good time together as a group, and that singling others out makes the rest feel uncomfortable. Don't be afraid to let them know that you take their feelings seriously enough that you want to protect them from exposing them too early on in ways they can't know the consequences of. And encourage your husbands to set the bar high as well!
The best thing, again, is to make sure there is some sort of plan for these get-togethers — games, a project — and fixing up their own get-together spot is a great project — meeting at the beach, etc. Guide them. They are like big toddlers whose playdates have to be managed, only with finesse.
When they get mad at each other, acknowledge that they might have a point, but keep their eyes on the big picture — we're in this together, these are our friends, let's take a breather, let's overlook faults. Remind them that they can be just as annoying to their friends as vice versa. Remind them that these kinds of hurt feelings often arise because too much time is being spent together, or too much undirected time. Bored people or pointless activity leads to issues between friends.
Now, one problem gets to be that other parents have their own ideas, and you can get vexed with your own friends when it seems like they aren't paying attention or don't think something is important. But hang in there. It's true that they have their moments of exasperation with us too. I am sure that some of my friends thought my girls weren't dressed right at the exact same moment that I was throwing up my hands about how their daughters were dressed. I bet I thought their sons were being goofuses right when they were fed up with mine.
So do talk about it with each other. Parents really help other parents by saying no to certain things. When your friend wonders if that movie is appropriate, it makes you remember to check the movie out, and that's a good thing!
But keep your sense of humor, and acknowledge that sometimes things won't be exactly right. The main thing is to prevent the kids from being left entirely to their own devices.
Let your standards be known and don't worry too much.
Hope this gives you some thought for now. Let me know!
God bless and a big hug to both of you,
Leila
Dear Leila,
Thank you so much for your personal response! I forwarded this to my friend Jen and she laughed out loud and declared “seriously! Has Auntie Leila been in our house? Cause she DEFINITELY understands what the scene looks like!”I apologize for not responding sooner. We had a full house of company last week, and I have also been hosting my 2 dear nephews, ages 11 and 13.
Our house guests brought an 11, 12, 13, and 15 year old. So needless to say, your encouragement and wisdom was very timely. (So if you are doing the math, I had a houseful of children, ages 4 months, 6, 7, 9, 11, 11, 11, 12, 12, 13 and 15.)
After reading your email, I felt much more confident about talking to all of them about what was expected and why…with “finesse” as you say. But, I did ask the girls (privately) to wear their board shorts over their swim suits, and tactfully addressed not pairing off and reminded them about staying in the public spaces with my own children and nephews.
I also put much more energy than I ever had into keeping everyone busy. There were lots of Settlers of Catan matches, as well as Bang and Carcassone. We also picked all the peas in the garden and had a big “pea shelling” party, and endless games of 20 questions as we worked. The kids were regularly employed to prepare meals and do clean up.
My kids do this anyway, but it is something that I often excuse when we have guests. Not so this time, and it was a great time to hang out in the kitchen, enjoy one another, and be productive.
It sounds so simple, but making the transition from having all little kids who just need to run and play, to having big kids who need meaningful, somewhat guided activities, is a shift. It is also a shift because the pre-adolescent doesn't think he needs moms input or guidance…and in fact, the knows it all much better than mom anyway. And, he can be quite convincing…especially if he is generally a very good boy.
One of the best things we did this last week was to gather our 9 and 11 year olds, and my 2 nephews, each night on our bed, after the guests had retired, to talk about they day. Those big kids still love to lay on mom and dads bed, and it really gave us a good opportunity to check in about the day and all the peer dynamics.
So, it was a good week. Thank you for your encouragement.
Blessings,
Shawna
Hi Shawna,
Wow, it sounds like great fun at your house! Wait for us, we're coming! 🙂
Yes, you got it. And wow, you had lots of kids there! Good for you.
What starts to happen is that the kids, who have implicitly trusted you up to now, are suddenly gripped by the fear that you will make them do something that the guests will think is dumb. And of course, the guests are thinking that they will make a boo boo and look dumb. So everyone is lost.
It's hard to pull it together and just guide them as you ought, but yet so simple once you do it. Then everyone feels relief and can go ahead and have fun! When you are confident, the kids sort of think, well, they seem to know what they are talking about, so we'll try it!
I love the idea of gathering them on your bed for some comfy parent time — and I believe that guests who are staying a while should separate at night, including kids, so that everyone can really rest. It sounds like so much fun to let the kids “overnight” together, or maybe there isn't much room to do otherwise, but after a while (like, one night) it will be a disaster — no sleep! The worst for interpersonal relationships is no sleep! We deprive our children of sleep and then wonder why they are such wretches!
I'll be looking up those games, as we do have Settlers (which I always call Prisoners for some reason, I guess Catan sounds like a prison to me), and would probably like the others. This Christmas we played Ligretto till our eyes fell out of our heads, and some of us *cough – Sukie* got a little obsessed!
You are way ahead of the curve, at least my personal curve, when it comes to balancing fun, work, and common sense. That makes me happy and gives me hope for building our culture!
God bless,
Leila
palak says
I love all of your posts about siblings! Out of all the things we do for our children, I hope that my husband and I are able to foster a good bond between our children. I love this post because it give me some insight as to how to do that when they are older!
Carrie says
This is a great post! And so very true and helpful…
But I have a quick question for all you lovely ladies…what if your kids haven't found their “group” yet? I have a 16 year old son (w/Aspergers), a 13 year old son, 11 year old daughter and 8 and 5 year old boys.We homeschool, but the last 2 years have been killer on our family, and we have pulled out of socialization for the most part. Now, things are starting to level out, at least somewhat, and we find ourselves without a friend group. We homeschool, and are involved at church, but just haven't clicked with anyone. Any ideas as to how to find, choose, and keep good friends?
Laura says
Carrie, I hope you don't mind my weighing in. I am a pastor's wife and our family moves a lot, so finding and keeping good friends is ever present on my mind. What I have learned through the years is that, even though you are BUSY, and I know you are, it is important to make the time. Our children really need friends in their lives and so do we. I know I need the encouragement! So, make the first move. Find a family you don't know well and invite them for dinner. Don't worry that the house isn't perfect or the food isn't fancy. If it's a disaster, you've only committed to a few hours. Invite another next week!
I have also learned that I love having friends of all ages. I don't need all my friends to have young kids like I do. Sometimes those who have grandchildren are the greatest source of fun and encouragement for me and often are in a place where they can also help with my kids. What a blessing.
My last bit of advice is that, while it is wonderful when kids are well matched with peers their own age, this can't always be the case. I have found that my children often have just as much fun with older or younger children. It gives my 'big kid' a chance to take a little responsibility and work on those leadership skills, and it gives my littles great 'big kids' to look up too. (See, mom isn't the only one who uses good manners)
Best of luck to you. Friends are such a blessing, I know that you will find some special ones to travel through this life with.
_Leila says
Carrie, read the hospitality posts. Pray for the right friends, and take steps to make it happen! Keep things simple and light, give people an “out” so they don't feel uncomfortable, but let them know you like them and appreciate them!
Everyone needs to be liked 🙂
If, when you pray, no one turns up, then you can be confident that for now, this is God's will for you, and just enjoy your own family. The world turns and new things are around the corner. A big hug!
glendachilders says
I love your parenting posts.
Lori @ IMK, IML says
One thing my circle of moms noticed very clearly in our children as they reached puberty was that one by one they temporarily neglected their younger friends as they transitioned into more adult interests. The younger ones felt hurt that their older friend no longer wanted to just play dolls/Legos but wanted to have real conversations and be more grownup. With the first couple of kids, it took the adults a little by surprise: “Why don't you spend much time with ______ anymore?” but soon we caught on and could have talks with the maturing young person about being careful of the feelings of the younger friend and continuing to spend some time with them and with the younger ones about the changes occurring to the older and to remember how that neglected feeling makes you sad so you don't do that to so-and-so when you go through that age in a year or two.
As you said, Leila, it is a time for the parents to be patient with each other, too. We're all progressing through new stages, aren't we?
Christina says
Thank you Leila. Erin, did you read this? This is like, RIGHT around the corner I'm afraid. It's kind of hard to think about after the break of the “older than toddlers but younger than teens” years that we're in right now, which can be so…unsupervised. Leila, I'm afraid you will become our on-call counselor.
Thank you, as always, for sage advice. I know this is a post I'll come back to soon.
Erin says
Ha, Ha! Yes, Christina, I read this. (I would have read it eventually, you know, but Leila said, “Erin, did you see… Christina left you a message in the comments on my last post!” So of course I had to read it right away. And I never, NEVER comment. But this was irresistible.)
And yes, it's right around the corner. I will be sad when this innocent, unstructured, unsupervised time passes. But we are SO grateful for the blessing of truly good friends (ours and the children's), so I think I have more confidence, or at least less fear, than I otherwise might. I do think we should start compiling a list of licit adolescent Lawler games now though….
Also, Christina, (while we're chatting here)… I have a little hunch about what might be {funny} tomorrow. You'd better not miss it–and babies are no excuse!
priest's wife says
My big girls turned 13 and 12 this summer…lots to think about!
Amanda says
We are pretty far from this stage around here but trust me when i say I'll be keeping this in mind for 8 years down the road or so! Such wise advice, I would've loved being a teenager at your house, lol!
amber says
I just found your blog..Mom of two girls 5 and 1…and I am already addicted to your advice….wisdom…and I thank you for taking the time to share.
Nancy says
Agree. Games, activities such as volleyball, along with food that older kids like to eat ( pizza, nachos, cheese fries) keep them occupied, out of trouble, and in your home.
Jen says
Thank you Auntie Leila! I am the actual “Jen” mentioned above! Shawna and I have been GREATLY encouraged and spurred on toward greater mothering by your practical and biblical wisdom. As of this fall, I will have a 15 year old girl, 13 year old boy, two 12 year olds (one boy, one girl), two 11 year old boys, two 9 year old girls, and 6 and 5 year old boys (9 of them adopted as older children from hard places). . . so, although we are doing really well most days, I do feel like this sudden shift from “middles” to “bigs” has been quite an adjustment on my part and I'm really trying to think differently about how we use and fill time with those 11-15 year olds each day!
shwell says
This is a great post, my kids are in a large bunch of friends whose Moms I really like, though we are the only homeschoolers. They are all close in age and will hit this stage in 2-3 years. I see certain boy/girl friendships developing now and wonder where they will lead
I wish my parents had been more open about their expectations when my friends were around.
It would certainly take a lot of the pressure out of teen relationships if the boy/girl friend knew you could go to the movies etc but that fooling around was not allowed. You could relax and have fun without the group pairing off and leaving you feeling either left out or pressured to pair off too.
I love this idea of supervised group activities. I remember a time as a teenager when I was invited to go swimming with a friend, only to find out that it was an excuse to meet a boy who had also brought a friend along……….I only went swimming with her once. I was so embarrassed to be there.
I wish my Dad had been a little more intimidating, just a little.
Thinking about what you often say Leila about acting not reacting,
Thanks for a thought provoking post, Michelle
Shauna says
This is great! As an extended friend group of these two mama's – I have enjoyed and gleaned much from this post! Thanks girls!
Lauren says
I really enjoyed your “What Would Ma Do” post and was also wondering if you would share your bread recipe (the first picture in this post)! Thank you so much for your wonderful blog.
Deirdre says
I have to chime in here to share a piece of my mother's advice that perhaps she won't think to mention here (or maybe she's mentioned elsewhere or will mention in some other post).
Since I have just gotten married and many of my friends (and siblings) are getting married these days, too, I've reflected on what went right in my upbringing with regard to these particular issues. My reflection has led me back to the one maxim that my mother instilled in me that guided me through the dangerous pre-teen, teen, and early-twenties (including college):
“Never be alone with a boy with the door closed.”
I don't remember when you said this, Mom, or how often you said it, or what exactly about the way you said it made it stand out in my mind. But it was a rule that was instilled in me and which I fell back on time and time again. Now that I'm on the other side of those childhood-adolescence-adulthood transitions (or at least mostly there) I recognize how very valuable that rule is!!
I will definitely make it a rule for my daughters!!
Amy says
What a great post! Thank you!